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CONTENTS, most recent first:

64) RAISING NUTRITIOUS CHICKENS, H.S. Wong (4/08/05)
63) "GRASS-FED" CERTIFICATION IN CALIFORNIA, lizgriff (11/6/04)
62) AN IRATE 1-CHICKEN FARMER, No signature (7/2/04)
61) LAB TESTS IN MALAYSIA VS THE WORLD, HS Wong (7/1/04)
60) 15 MINUTES OUTDOORS IS NOT "FREE-RANGE" (6/10/04)
59) NO GOVT "FREE RANGE" LABELS; GO TO FARMS INSTEAD, Randy (5/23/04)
58) MEASURES FOR ERADICATING AVIAN FLU, HS Wong (2/7/04)
57) OMEGA-3 CONTENT OF CHICKEN, HS Wong (9/27/03)
56) HOW CHICKEN MASH WAS INVENTED, Robert Plamondon (6/7/03)
55) ENZYMES, PET, LADINO CLOVER - MISC FEED INFO, Chicken-Feed at YahooGroups.com (5/4/03)
54) PREVENTING WORM PARASITES, Robert Plamondon (4/28/03)
53) DOGS N CHICKENS, ChickenFeed at YahooGroups.com (4/22/03)
(I'm tickled pink! ---ks)
52) STICKY CHICKS OR STUCK CHICKS? HS Wong (4/9/03)
51) HEN TO ACCEPT BABY CHICKS -- HOW?, Kristine (4/9/03)
50) LAST DAYS OF INCUBATION, R. Bloch (4/9/03)
49) WILL CHICKENS EAT ANTS?,
ChickenFeed at YahooGroups.com (3/25/03)
48) TURMERIC AND GARLIC FOR CRD, H.S. Wong (3/25/03)
47) FEED ECONOMY DISCUSSION,
ChickenFeed at YahooGroups.com (2/23/03)
46) WINTER WASTE MANAGEMENT, R. Bloch (12/3/02)
45) WINTER WASTE MANAGEMENT, Julia (12/3/02)
44) TRANS FATS, S. Royer (2/24/02)
43) FATS IN FEEDS, R. Plamondon (2/21/02)
42) YELLOW GREASE, A. Royle(2/18/02)
41) YELLOW FAT
40) ORGANIC CERTIFICATION ISSUES, L. Owlsley (1/25/02)
39) CHICKEN GUARD DOGS, L. Owlsley (11/14/01)
38) GAPEWORM PARASITES IN EARTHWORMS,
R. Plamondon (11/13/01)
37) ADVANTAGE FOR WHOM? IS "ADVANTAGE" SAFE?
36) MANAGING COCCIDOSIS USING DEEP LITTER
35) LIST OF ANTIBIOTICS USED IN FEED
34) ANTIBIOTICS IN FEED
33) TRUER WORDS
32) ORGANIC OR...??
31) PASTURED POULTRY AUTHOR RE-EXAMINES SYSTEM
31b)RESPONSE FROM PASTUREPOULTRY LIST MEMBER
30) MILLET INSTEAD OF CORN
29) COSTS OF FEED FOR 150 CHICKS IN WASHINGTON STATE
28) INTESTINAL CONDITIONS, PARASITES, PROBIOTICS, AND TOXINS
27) FEEDING STORE-BOUGHT EGGS TO BIRDS CAUSES PROBLEMS ---FREE RANGE EGGS DON'T
26) FEED AND MOVEABLE PEN DETAILS IN PASTURED POULTRY
25) POULTRY-FEED COVER CROPS FOR SMALL PLOTS
24) NUTRITIONISTS AND FEED MILLS
23) CSA'S BECOMING POPULAR WAY OF BUYING FARM POULTRY
22) "WIVES TALES" OR "WISE TALES"?
21) PASTURED POULTRY COVER CROPS, IN DETAIL
20) KILL MITES: FOOT TRAYS APPLY D.E. TO CHIX' FEET
19) CHICKEN "POOP PATROL" IN STABLE KEEPS PARASITES WAY DOWN
18) FREE RANGE TECHNIQUES AT KINTALINE FARM
PLANT AND POULTRY CENTRE, SCOTLAND
17) SCRATCH GRAINS NEED SUPPLEMENTING WITH OTHER FEEDS
16) UPSTARTS
15) AMERICAN PASTURED POULTRY PRODUCERS MAGAZINE
14) NEW WORMERIES VIS-A-VIS CHICKENS WEBSITE
13) SALATIN LAYER RATION, ETC.
12) DIATOMACEOUS EARTH FOR DE-WORMING CHICKENS
11) THE OLD NAVY CHIEF AND THE PARROT
10) TO COMPOST OR NOT TO COMPOST (CHICKEN MANURES IN PASTURED POULTRY)
9) SUNFLOWER SEEDS INFO REQUESTED
8) OCEAN POLLUTANTS INFO REQUESTED
7) GETTING BIRDS ACQUAINTED
6) FEED DETAILS --- MAKING YOUR OWN
5) VIGILANCE IN KNOWING YOUR SOURCES PAYS OFF
4) TOWARD A DEFINITION OF PASTURE POULTRY
3) RESIDUES TESTING NEEDED
2) ORGANIC FEED MILL IN PENNSYLVANIA
1) GUINEA HENS

-------- begin posts --------

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_____________________________________________
32) TRUER WORDS: I'm saying that "Those who love sausage or the law shouldn't watch either one being made" could be extended to [poultry] breeding, as well.

----- Robert Plamondon

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31) ORGANIC OR ... ?
Thu, 1 Feb 2001
"Robert Plamondon" robert at plamondon.com


My beef about the organic movement is that it started out as a producer movement centered around healthy, productive soil, and somewhere along the way it seems to have mutated into a consumer movement centered around the fear of chemicals.

I'm an adherent of the first school of thought. If you focus on healthy, productive soil, you're not going to have much use for chemicals. Pesticides, herbicides, and chemical fertilizers tend to kill off earthworms and soil microbes, which are the organisms you rely upon to keep your farm productive. So this whole class of chemicals strikes you as being irrelevant, and you rarely find a circumstance where using them makes any sense at all.

The thing that's wrong with conventional agriculture isn't what it does to the FOOD, it's what it does to the LAND. Not much of the chemicals end up in the food to trouble the consumer. It stays on the land, poisoning the environment -- and the farmers.

Somewhere I read a blurb on the advantages of sustainable agriculture. A farmer was quoted as saying, "A couple of years after switching to sustainable methods, the songbirds came back to my farm." His chemical use had killed countless songbirds and other creatures, but he probably doesn't deserve credit for killing a single consumer. The land is taking most of the punishment.

I met a worker at a local testing lab at a Farmer's Market. She told me that they rarely detect pesticide residues in any food samples.

The food that comes from conventional agriculture, though far from tasty and not as nutritious as it ought to be, isn't bad when you consider the price. Food is amazingly cheap these days. The average consumer only spends 10% of his income on food, and that includes processed and convenience foods. In 1950 it was something like 25% of income, and apparently it was a whopping 50% of income in the 1920s. Not surprisingly, nutritional deficiencies were common in the 1920s, stunting or crippling millions of children.

When selling eggs at the farmers' market, I'm continually meeting consumers whose beliefs about poultry consist largely of someone's self-serving lies. I'm constantly being asked about hormones. The only hormone that was ever used to any great extent in poultry (DES) was banned in the U.S. the year I was born. They look at misleading pictures on other people's egg cartons and are convinced that the eggs come from free-range hens, when in fact they are kept in close confinement. They're convinced that hens are kept under bright, 24-hour light and lay eggs until they die of exhaustion.

People are making money on these lies. They're pushing their slick magazines, soliciting contributions for their animal-welfare organizations, or selling their crappy confinement eggs on the basis of these lies. It really, REALLY bugs me. And they're focusing the attention of the consumer on a total fantasy rather than on the miserable state of the land.

I'm a lot more concerned about the land than I am about, say, food safety, which I consider to be pretty good, considering. My current theory is that the ordinary feed ingredients available on the market are more than adequate as chicken feed, provided that the chickens also have access to pasture. Pasture seems to be the critical ingredient. Our broilers seem to be tastier when raised on lush spring pasture than dry summer pasture, for instance.

On the topic of, "Where does quality come from?" it certainly seems that pasture quality is more important to the taste of broilers and eggs than details of the mixed ration. We use very ordinary feed that probably isn't any better than what Foster Farms or Willamette Egg use, but our broilers and eggs taste far better than theirs. We have customers who have switched from certified-organic confinement-chicken eggs who insist that our eggs are the best they've ever tasted. So I guess that certified-organic feed doesn't guarantee good flavor. We've had similar comments about the broilers, including one gourmet customer who compared them favorably to anything he'd encountered in a gastronomic tour of France. This strikes me as evidence that it's not the contents of the feed sack that's the critical element, but pasture quality. To my way of thinking, this is great news, since it helps keep me focused the land.

If I were more politically inclined, I suppose I'd try to buy only grains from politically correct growers, but the fact is that I believe in the inevitability of sustainable agriculture. I believe that it can produce grain just as cheaply as conventional agriculture -- in the long term, more cheaply. It will take cheap sustainable grain to pound the stake into the heart of chemical agriculture. Since I don't believe that certified organic grain will make my eggs taste any better, and I don't think my customers will be eager to pay for the extra time and expense it would entail, I don't buy it.
-- Robert

36475 Norton Creek Rd, Blodgett OR 97326
Voice: (541) 453-5841 * Fax: (541) 453-4139
Free-range poultry site: http://www.plamondon.com


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31) PASTURED POULTRY AUTHOR RE-EXAMINES SYSTEM [See Andy's wonderful post, "Pastured Poultry FAQ" in our Pastured Poultry section.]

Wed, 23 Feb 2000
"Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" Goodearth at Rockbridge.net

Hello fellow list members,

After re-reading the FAQ I've decided I can no longer support pasture poultry as being environmentally sensitive, economically viable or socially just, at least not in the way it is being practiced now.

If we are using twice as much land to grow grain, that's not ecologically defensible. If we are putting our chickens in minimal shelter during all kinds of weather, that's not humane. If we are working our butts off to make this sort of system work, then that's not sustainable.

In my book CHICKEN TRACTOR, I repeated the "30% feed savings on pasture" myth. I regret that, and I will print a retraction in the next issue.

This coming season I will do my own research, on my own farm, so that I know what I am talking about and can speak the truth in the future. I know it is possible to design a pasture-based poultry system that is more sustainable that what I am doing now. If any of you have ideas to share please let me know.

Thanks,
Andy Lee

31b) Response from PasturePoultry at Onelist.com listmember

Wed, 23 Feb 2000
Oak Moon Farm knorek at internet1.net

Hi Andy,

Quite a bombshell! I must admit having my enthusiasm temporarily dampened, but after some serious pondering, I must respectfully disagree on your points:

> If we are using twice as much land to grow grain, that's not ecologically
> defensible.

I assume your are saying that for one acre of grain grown, one acre of pasture is required to run it through chickens (when the grain is used for poultry feed). I do not know enough to argue this point. I will assume that it is correct, for the sake of this discussion. In absolute terms, it may not be a defensible practice. However, relatively speaking, it is infinitely better (environmentally-wise) to raise poultry on pasture than in confinement. The system may need to be tweaked to make it a absolute statement, but we are on our way.

> If we are putting our chickens in minimal shelter during all kinds of
> weather, that's not humane.
>

Chickens only require minimal shelter. Granted, we suffer from routine extremes in weather, and the chickens suffer also. However, a pasture raised chicken (with minimal shelter) is still in a more humane environment than its confinement cousins.

> If we are working our butts off to make this sort of system work, then
> that's not sustainable.
>

I know of no business where one can succeed without working one's butt off. This includes farming! Working one's self to the point of exhaustion, family and marital stress, etc., is another matter. It is very easy to design a pastured poultry model that leads to the latter. Our challenge is to focus on optimizing the return for working our butts off, but only after we have thought the process through...over and over again. And a continuing challenge is to modify the process after learning from our mistakes (and the mistakes of others).

Andy, the points that you make are valid, in both absolute terms and relative terms. However, they must be taken in the following context...pastured poultry systems, for their shortcomings, are still infinitely better than the industrial confinement model currently being foisted on the environment and the consumer!!!

Do we need to do better? YES!

Can we do better? YES!

Should we give up? NO!!!!!!

Wow, and I thought that this was going to be a routine day! Thank you, Andy, for this opportunity for introspection.

Peace,
Jack

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30) MILLET INSTEAD OF CORN
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000
From: Jeff Mattocks - jeff at fertrell.com
[NOTE: See Jeff in our Online Experts section]
Milo, Millet, and Sorghum grains are a very good feed for laying hens (only). These grains tend to be high in tannins which are Polyphenols. The bottom line is that these tannins can and will decrease body weight gains in young developing poultry. I would recommend not to exceed 30% of the prepared grain mix with these types of grains.
Developing Poultry
None of these grains should be used for developing poultry unless protein adjustments are made. They should not be used in conjunction with other small grains in the same mix.

If you have additional question please feel free to ask. You may also contact at:
The Fertrell Co.
Ph: 800-347-1566
Jeff Mattocks



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29) COSTS OF FEED FOR 150 CHICKS IN WASHINGTON STATE
Michaele Blakely mjb at premier1.net
Feb. 18, 2000

This is a flock started in August and pretty dry.

> 150 chicks 97.00
> 250 lbs. broiler starter 53.95
> 900 lbs. broiler grower 190.26
> 500 lbs. broiler finisher 98.50
> processing at 16 per hr. at $20.00/hr 156.20
> packing at 32 per hr. at $20.00/hr 78.00
Total 673.91
125 birds at 5.5lb at 2.35 lbs 928.13

> These birds were on pasture, but allowed free-range during the last 3 weeks to forage. I have larger and healthier flocks when on cover crops, a mixture of oats, legumes, and vetch seems to be preferred by the birds, and Dutch clover is next.

So food conversion is 1lb meat to 2.6lb feed. It is organic feed. Nothing else is added.

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28) INTESTINAL CONDITIONS, PARASITES, PROBIOTICS, AND TOXINS
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000
From: "Donna Fezler" gcr at rhealiving.com
[NOTE: See Donna in our Online Experts]

Probiotics introduce the good bacteria and may be used without worry of infection. I don't know of any good studies but I do use it, especially in stress conditions which will precede a parasite infestation I still would wash my hands because any bacteria can be a problem in the wrong place.

I have lots of room, feed garlic (it is also high in selenium which is an immune booster and a natural antibacterial and antiviral), and use DE. [Diatomaceous Earth] The DE definitely controls flies. We know the difference in less than a week.

Ivermectin has been shown to be toxic to rheas and ostriches so I don't have that choice and the chickens eat what the rheas eat. I strongly believe that the bugs are opportunists looking for a free lunch. Hexane extracted soy meal appears (no double blind study) to cause the breakdown of the baby rheas' intestinal wall which provides the free fatty acids the protozoan need. I worked for 3 years on that problem before I realized I had to stop treating the parasite and start boosting the immune system.

The toxin detoxification competes with the rebuilding mechanism for the available sulfur. If there isn't enough the body can't rebuild fast enough and the area under assault (in this case the intestinal wall) breaks down. Once that happens the cell debris itself becomes a toxin and something has to clean it up. These is where the parasites thrive. Keep the gut intact with a stress-free environment, essential fatty acids, and ample supplementation and/or fresh wholesome food and the parasites won't be able to compete with the good flora.

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27) FEEDING STORE-BOUGHT EGGS TO BIRDS CAUSES PROBLEMS---FREE RANGE EGGS DON'T
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000
From: "Donna Fezler" gcr at rhealiving.com

These birds are actually for an experiment comparing free range eggs and grocery store eggs as food. I already know that in baby rheas we get turned legs and other leg problems when I use grocery store eggs. This will be a controlled study, and I wanted to use half Cornish cross because of all its inherent growth problems and also a hardier chicken. I still want something worth eating at the end of the study.

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26) FEED AND MOVEABLE PEN DETAILS IN PASTURED POULTRY

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999
From: "Robert Plamondon" robert at plamondon.com

RE: Day Range> Pasture pens means the birds live in a small (typically> 10x12-foot) pen that> is moved to a fresh spot each day or twice a day. The advantages are the> 100% coverage of ground for graze and manure spreading, the relatively low> cost per pen, the almost 100% protection from predators, and the lack of> need for perimeter fencing of any kind. The detriments are the amount of> labor required to carry water and feed to the birds once or twice, or even> three times daily, and the moving of the pen. The pens are bulky,> birds get> crushed, backs get thrown out, tempers get frayed, and the older> we get, or > the steeper our land, the less we like moving those darn pens so> often.

We don't have any of these problems. Some points:

1. A 10x12 pen is too large. An 8x8 pen is easier to move, can be built outof cheaper materials, and all the lumber can be put in a full-sized pickupwith the tailgate up.

2. The pens are hard to move and crush birds because they're designed wrong.The front and back walls should be ON TOP OF the skids, not dragging on theground. As soon as the back wall is off the ground, the pens become easy tomove. As soon as the back wall is off the ground, the birds no longer getcrushed. to keep them from popping out, extending the chicken wire down toground level works, but a better plan is to hem a chain into a plastic tarpand use it as a weighted curtain across the gap. You could convert existingchicken tractors by nailing a two-by-four at the bottom of two of the sidesto create skids, and then doing something to keep the birds from poppingout. This would raise the front and back by only 1 1/2", which really isn'tenough (to my way of thinking), but it would convince you.

3. Hills are good. It's easier to move pens downhill than up. We start atthe top with chicks and move the pen down the hill by hand with theassistance of gravity. When the pens are empty, we pull them uphill by tractor. But our pens are easy enough to move that there's no problemmoving them uphill if we get to the bottom before the birds are ready toprocess.4. Carrying water is too time-consuming. It almost always can be avoided.1/4" O.D. drip tubing is cheap and very strong. We have a stock tank at thetop of our hill that we fill from a tank in our pickup truck once a week.We have a feeder system of 1/2" poly tubing going to garden hose or driptubing. Not having a water bucket on the house makes the house easier tomove, and the birds are healthier now that they never run out of water. Ifthere's always water, they never fight over it. Nobody should carry wateraround in buckets. If you don't have a convenient hill, all you need is aplatform elevated to a height a couple of feet greater than that of achicken tractor -- or a pump.

And,> if you are growing any significant number of birds you will need a lot of> these pens, so suddenly the cost adds up to quite a bit. Also, birds get> smothered, get wet and chilled and die, or die of heat stress, and they> often die from mechanical injury during pen moves. I can always tell the> carcass of a pen raised broiler by the scratches on its back or the breast> blister.My impression is that pastured poultry growers often use grossly inadequatefeeder space and this almost forces them to skimp on feed. The standard inindustry (which uses expensive automatic feeders and would skimp on them ifthey could) is three inches of feeder space per bird up to seven weeks, andfour inches thereafter. Given a trough that the birds can use both sidesof, that's eight birds per foot to seven weeks and six birds per footafterwards. A 90-bird house should have three to four four-foot troughs,yet I keep hearing of people trying to get by with only one!

The other issue is the amount of feed. If you see an empty trough, youdon't know whether you underfed the birds by one grain or ten pounds.Empty troughs are bad news. You can keep the birds grossly underfed andthey will look healthy, but only the ones at the top of the pecking orderwill grow at a normal rate. The rest will be runts. And of course underfeeding leads to fighting at the feed trough. We never see scratches when processing our birds. We've only seen one carcass bruised by tractordamage (from our tractor with the too-low skids), and three or four breastblisters. In my opinion, if one addresses these problems, day ranging has noadvantages for broiler growers. Your big gains were in the hose-fed watererand the long feeder. I don't think the yard buys you anything at all.

-- Robert--Robert Plamondon * High-Tech Technical Writing36475 Norton Creek Road * Blodgett OR 97326541-453-5841 * Fax: 541-453-4139mailto:robert at xxxxxxxxx.xxx * http://www.pioneer.net/~robertp

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From: "Michaele Blakely" mjb at premier1.net, Feb.8

25) POULTRY-FEED COVER CROPS FOR SMALL PLOTS

I've also experimented with various mixes, some work well, others don't. I view the fields in beds rather than acres, and since I don't use a tractor, large root mass is a difficult one. I tried rye and it was tough. Two combinations I've found very successful have been oats, field peas, and vetch planted in late fall. It pretty much sits but begins growth about now, and is ready for birds to be out on it in March. We can then till and plant a few weeks later. The birds love the oats, and vetch, leave the peas alone. I figure the peas are going for the soil only, that's okay. The other combo is to use white clover under broccoli. I discovered quite by accident that in my fields at least the cabbage butterfly is confused when white clover is planted under brassicas. (great habitats for slugs however, out come the ducks, they don't like broccoli). Once the broccoli is done the stalks are cut and the birds start munching. Clover is expensive, but in small areas up to 1000 sq feet, and I think this system works well.
Michaele
Growing Things
Carnation WA

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24) NUTRITIONISTS AND FEED MILLS

From: "Robert Plamondon" robert at plamondon.com, Feb.8

A lot of the nutritional information is still coming from the poultry specialists at the land-grant colleges, so the place to start is to call your local extension service and find out who that person is. In about six far-western States, it's Jim Hermes at Oregon State University.

The way the feed mills do it, poultry nutrition is pretty easy. The simplest method is to take corn, soybean oil meal, feed-grade limestone, feed-grade rock phosphate, a packet of commercial vitamin/mineral premix, a packet of refined methionine to make up for the amino acid deficiencies of the corn, mix, and voila! chicken feed. For medicated feed, you toss in the packet of medication.

The actual mixing procedure is a little more complicated than this, but the recipe isn't. You can make it more exciting by adding grains other than corn and using byproducts. There's software that you can use to dial in the prices of every available feedstuff and get a least-cost mix. The software remembers all the rules, such as poultry not liking rye and turning up their noses if you put in more than a couple of percent of rye in the mix, or consumers not liking fishy tastes in their poultry products, so you shouldn't put in more than two or three percent of fish meal.

I don't know if this software is available for free (it probably is, because it's the sort of thing the universities would crank out).

I know that a lot of people point fingers at commercial feed, but I don't understand what the big deal is. Salatin claims that vitamin/mineral premixes are a bad thing, but he never says why. I eat vitamin/mineral premixes myself (called a "multivitamin with mineral supplement pill") on the supposition that they're good for me.

Did y'all get your APPPA GRIT in the mail? The nutritional analysis of the pastured poultry was fascinating, and in most respects the results were even better than I expected. But I was concerned that the iron and calcium levels in the carcasses were low. Maybe they're low in the diet?

-- Robert

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23) CSA'S BECOMING POPULAR WAY OF BUYING FARM POULTRY

From Brian Moyer, Feb.8,
Email: BrianM22 at aol.com

We have thus far only done this as a trial last fall with one of the CSA's. Here's what we did, the farmer at the CSA put up a list to sign up for chicken and eggs to be delivered the first week of the month. Then, he called me at the end of the month and gave me the number of chickens and eggs to bring. When I delivered them, he payed me my money and collected his from his subscribers. It seemed to work pretty well so we will doing that this year. This year will be the true test because we only did it for one month because it was the end of the season when we got this idea.

I think we have a couple things going for us.

1) I get my money when I deliver so there is an incentive for the CSA farmer to sell the chickens and eggs or he is stuck with them.

2) both CSA's hold "field days" in the spring so subscribers and interested households can come to the farm to check it out. They have invited me to come with a demonstration pen to explain how we raise our chickens and to answer any questions the shareholders might have.

3) CSA's and pastured poultry are becoming more and more popular here in the Northeast and this might be a slight advantage over your part of the country but that is just a guess.

Brian Moyer

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22) "WIVES TALES" OR "WISE TALES"?
From: "Robert Plamondon" robert at plamondon.com, Feb.8

> From: "Pamela Marshall" caiplichhorses at hotmail.com

> > Interesting! I just got 2 old books on raising turkeys (pub 1898
> and 1922),
> both recommended feeding charcoal - one says "for digestive troubles" -
> neither say anything about using it for worms. The "remedies" that they
> suggest for worms are scarey - including kerosene, tobacco, and alum -
> although another "good" suggestion is to feed garlic and onions
> (Wonder if the birds come pre-flavored after this diet????!!)


Garlic and onions are both supposed to give an unpleasant taste to meat and eggs.

> Both also suggest using black pepper (one also suggests red pepper and
> ginger) for respiratory ailments - the suggestion os to "season" the feed
> with pepper once or twice a week, esp in damp weather. Anyone know about
> this??

This is pure snake oil. It's based on the old theory of "counter-irritants," which pretty much concluded that adding insult to injury speeds the healing process. Thus, if chickens aren't laying, we'll add condiments to their food that, in people, cause a burning sensation both going in and coming out, hoping to stimulate the chickens' behinds. For respiratory problems, we'll give them things that make them sneeze and wheeze.

The charcoal is a different kind of idiocy, based on the idea that illness is caused by "bad air," and that charcoal is known to absorb gases. (Also, a lot of people believed that all ills were caused by digestive upset, and that laxatives or other digestive hocus-pocus were miracle cures, so you get two old wives' tales for the price of one.) A lot of people kept using charcoal even after it was proven ineffective because there didn't seem to be a downside, and their belief comforted them. Then people discovered vitamins and everybody instantly abandoned charcoal because they were afraid that it would absorb vitamins and cause deficiency diseases.

If you read enough of the old stuff you start seeing the pattern of health fads. The trend towards open-front houses happened at the same time as the open-air and sleeping-porch movement for human houses, which itself was a way of trying to avoid tuberculosis. (But it turned out that open-front houses were a good idea.)

Tobacco and kerosene are too toxic to the birds to be really practical. Garlic, onions, and vinegar probably won't hurt the birds (unless you put vinegar in galvanized waterers, which will give them zinc poisoning.) Does it work? Who knows? Who cares? Folk practices survive because people would rather believe their aged neighbor with the flock of sickly chickens than all the experts in the world.

-- Robert

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21) PASTURED POULTRY COVER CROPS, IN DETAIL
From: Aaron Silverman cgrowers at pond.net
Creative Growers, Noti, Oregon
Feb 7

We raise about 2,000 pastured broilers, and 3 acres of mixed produce & cut flowers. Chickens are run on an acre of the market area from May through the middle of June, then moved to pasture for the rest of the season. The section the birds are run on is seeded with a cover crop tailored for grazing.

We have experimented with several mixes, including straight white clover, oats/annual rye/field peas, oats/cereal rye/annual rye, and a mix of all the above. Cover crops must be chosen that are palatable to the birds, and can withstand (or even enhanced by) mowing. Pure clover had the best results for the chickens, requiring no mowing and producing lots of succulent growth. However, for a short-season cover crop, clover is just too expensive at $80-$90 per 50lb bag. Peas & oats had great growth, and performed well in the beginning of the season, but was difficult to keep at grazing height. We thought the birds would eat the succulent peas, but merely tromped on them instead.

We've now settled on mixes of grains & annual rye, for several reasons. This type of mix can be either grazed by other animals early in the spring to maintain grazing height, or mowed. Either treatment may stimulate the grains to "tiller"out, enhancing root growth & additional leaf growth. Cereal rye has some alleleopathic effects on weed seeds, diminishing their ability to germinate. This type of mix may also be established much later in the season, an important aspect in a climate that often sees little precipitation during the growing season until well into October when light levels are much diminished.

After the birds are phased onto the pasture, the ground is mowed and disked. A portion of the section may be planted with winter squash/pumpkins with little additional fertility (depending on overall fertility levels). The remaining ground is cultivated through July & early August, treating it as a bare fallow. Beds are formed and overwintering coles (b-sprouts, kale, etc) and garlic are planted in the remaining area. Recent research has suggested that microbial activity is enhanced with cover crops allowed to go to a slightly more carbonaceous phase than normally grown. A small section of chicken ground is allowed to go to seed after the birds are removed each year, disked and rolled later in the fall than the fallowed ground. This has been sufficient to reseed the strip, often with a lusher and thicker stand than the rest of the field. As we bring more ground into cultivation, a larger section may be allowed to reseed each year.

Although the chickens do provide nitrogen, phosphorus, & calcium, they are only a part of our overall fertility program. Birds are generally rotated to sections that have seen multiple croppings for the past 2 years (every section sees birds a minimum of once every 3 years).

Aaron

Creative Growers
Aaron Silverman
88741 Torrence Rd.
Noti, Or. 97461
Quality Produce & Pastured Poultry

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20) KILL MITES: FOOT TRAYS APPLY D.E. TO CHIX' FEET
From: "Robert Plamondon" robert at plamondon.com
Feb. 7:
Another clean-egg trick was devised by the University of Washington way back when. They replaced the perches on the nest boxes with shallow trays, a few inches wide, that they filled with powdered gypsum. This would coat the hens' feet and keep the mud from wiping off onto the eggs. I've made half-hearted experiments with this, and it seems to work. Diatomaceous earth would probably work just as well as powdered gypsum, and kill mites at the same time.


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19) CHICKEN "POOP PATROL" IN STABLES KEEPS PARASITES WAY DOWN
From: "Pamela Marshall" caiplichhorses at hotmail.com

Out in the pastures ... they work together well - chickens eat the broad leaved thinks that horses sometimes aviod, eat the bugs, spread the manure to where the parasites are killed by the sun rays, and eat the grains that the horses did't digest.

Our hens are in the portable house that they summered in - around November, we moved the house into the pasture where my two weanling foals are - it is enclosed with diamond mesh fencing which will keep most critters at bay and keeps the hens in. The house is at one end, with a 2 strand electric tape sectioning off their end from the foals so they can have a "safe" area. The foals ignore them mostly though, and the chickens happily race to the run-in shed in the mornings to see what goodies the foals have left for them. Also have 2 pens of turkeys (trio of slates and a bourbon red tom) sectioned off there too with hog panels to keep them seperate. This is a bit hodge podge this year, as we are still fencing (Not right now though - 14" of snow on the ground!), barn building, and constructing pens - next year I hope to have each "group" of chickens or turkeys in seperate paddocks with the horses in the winter...they make excellent "poop patrollers" which keeps the parasite load of the horses way down...you could do this with any livestock as long as the exterior fence was chicken/predator proof...

Pam
Seldom Seen Farm in Amenia, NY
My mind is like lightning - one brilliant flash and it's gone!


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18) FREE RANGE TECHNIQUES AT KINTALINE FARM PLANT AND POULTRY CENTRE
Oban, Argyll, Scotland
http://www.poultryscotland.co.uk/hens/freerangeeggs.html
Our birds range over permanent pasture. We move the houses regularly to keep them on fresh grazing all the time. First thing in the morning they are let out of the houses - they spend a few hours grazing and chasing bugs. Gradually they go back inside to lay and top up with layers meal which is available ad lib. Over the middle of the day they carry on laying, dust bathing, exploring the fields and on good days sunbathing. In the middle of the afternoon we feed a wheat feed outside. This allows us to encourage them to investigate certain areas of their surroundings and is a valuable feed supplement. We also collect eggs, top up feed and check all the hens. In the height of the laying season and on hot days we will have collected in the morning as well.
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17) SCRATCH GRAINS NEED SUPPLEMENTING WITH OTHER FEEDS
Jan. 25, 2000 "...wheat is only a scratch for productive hens and youngstockfor layers and youngstock to be fed properly they need the correct balancedfeedsI know a few 'organic' backyarders only feed wheat but that would not givehigh production, and free range eggs are a marginal enough product withoutgetting a decent yield. Young hens would 'do' but not well.So - any organic producers out therefor once - PLEASE advertise even if it is privately to one of us and we willpass it on.
Jill http://www.poultryscotland.co.uk


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16) UPSTARTS
Feb. 5, 2000
** A farmer goes out one day and buys a brand new stud rooster to copulate with his chickens. The farmer puts the rooster straight in the pen so he can get down to business. The young rooster walks over to the old rooster and says "OK, old fellow, time to retire." The old rooster says, "You can't handle all these chickens....look at what it did to me!" The young rooster replies, "Now, don't give me a hassle about this. Time for the old to step aside and the young to take over, so take a hike." The old rooster says, "Aw, c'mon.....just let me have the two old hens over in the corner. I won't bother you," The young rooster says, "Scram! Beat it! You're washed up! I'm taking over!" So, the old rooster thinks for a minute and then says to the young rooster, "I'll tell you what, young fellow, I'll have a race with you around the farmhouse. Whoever wins the race gets domain of the chicken oop. And if I'm so feeble, why not give me a little head start? The young rooster says, "Sure, why not, you know I'll still beat you," They line up in back of the farmhouse, get a chicken to cluck "Go!" and the old rooster takes off running. About 15 seconds later the young rooster takes off after him. They round the front of the farmhouse and the young rooster is only about 5 inches behind the old rooster and gaining fast. The farmer, sitting on the porch, looks up, sees what's going on, grabs his shotgun and BOOM!, he blows the young rooster to KFC heaven. He shakes his head gloomily and says "***** of a ******* ...third gay rooster I bought this week!"

Thanks to Topaz for this!
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15) AMERICAN PASTURED POULTRY PRODUCERS MAGAZINE
The next issue of APPPA Grit is going in the mail tomorrow. Its a 20-page issue, highlights include results of a SARE project that looked at nutritional analysis of pastured poultry, highlights of the presentations at the annual meeting, minutes from the annual meeting, and the last two conference calls of the board of directors. There's also articles on poultry labeling, brooder management, pp expansion in the new millennium and many other tidbits of information! A subscription to APPPA is $20.
Diane --- American Pastured Poultry Producers Assn
5207 70th St, Chippewa Falls WI 54729
715 - 723-2293
grit at agrippa.org
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14) NEW WORMERIES VIS-A-VIS CHICKENS WEBSITE
Jan. 15, 2000
I've uploaded a text file to the upload/download area of our website http://metalab.unc.edu/permaculture-online/uploads/docs. It's called wormeries.txt and contains info that I put together from various e-mail / ng postings. Some of the info is 'strictly' wormery stuff, other relates to chickens & wormeries. Hope it is of some use. I've put in a link at http://metalab.unc.edu/permaculture-online/animland.html to Kim's excellent chicken website. Cheers, Ute

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13) SALATIN LAYER RATION, ETC.
Jan 28, 2000
From: mayorsson1 at hotmail.com
Hello Folks, Here's a Joel Salatin layer ration from '98, for 1 ton of feed.

Roasted soy beans 617#
Ground corn 596#
Cracked corn 398#
Crimped oats 219#
Feed grade limestone 99#
Nutri-balancer 60#
Kelp meal 11#

Here in NC I don't have access to roasted soybeans, so I will substitute soybean meal, a soybean oil and alfalfa meal. My wheat prize will replace the crimped oats, so there is the possibility of their lower protein content being offset by the inclusion of alfalfa meal. I had thought of using a probiotic and possibly some DE. Another producer topdressed their layer ration with aragonite for available calcium. In the past I have used a broiler ration, which uses Sea-Lac fish meal to boost protein, and the layers ate and produced well. I say that "prize wheat makes a tasty treat, and that the price can't be beat!" Any new rhymes or feed recipes anyone? Edward.

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12) DIATOMACEOUS EARTH FOR DE-WORMING CHICKENS

From: "Farm Dad" Jan 26, 2000 farmdad at hotmail.com

Diatomacious earth is THE natural remedy of choice for worming. Why use harsh drugs on your birds when DE is quite effective and has been used successfully for many years by organic folks.

Last spring I found some worms in the feces of a recently purchased hen. I used DE in the feed (at 0.5% rate) for a few days. I found no other worms and the eggs increased in size markedly.

Food grade DE is the only type that should be used. NEVER use DE ment for swimming pool filters. It is a different size.

I know of several sources of DE in different parts of the US. I will have to check my file at home - if anyone is interested.

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11) THE OLD NAVY CHIEF AND THE PARROT

From: Bentoak398 at aol.com, Jan. 26, 2000

The old Navy Chief finally retired and got that chicken ranch he always wanted. He took with him his life-long pet parrot.

First morning at 0430, the parrot squawked loudly and said, "Reveille, Reveille. Up all hands. Heave out and trice up. The smoking lamp is lighted, now Reveille." The old chief told the parrot, "We are no longer in the Navy. Go back to sleep."

The next morning, the parrot did the same thing. Chief told the parrot, "If you keep this up, I'll put your ass out in the chicken pen." Again the parrot did it, and true to his word, the Chief put the parrot in the chicken pen.

About 0630 the morning after that, the Chief was awakened by one heck of a ruckus in the chicken pen. He went out to see what was the matter. The parrot had about 40 white chickens at attention in formation, and on the ground lay 3 bruised and beaten brown chickens. The parrot was saying, "By God, when I say fall out in dress whites, I don't mean Khakis!"

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From: "Argall Family" Dec. 21, 1999

10) TO COMPOST OR NOT TO COMPOST (CHICKEN MANURES IN PASTURED POULTRY)
I wrote:
>
> Just to make the point that chicken manures should be composted
> to be really
> healthy for plants. The combination of droppings with straw or other
wood > litter is valuable, indeed essential, because it assists in
> getting a better carbon-nitrogen ratio.


Robert then wrote: "This doesn't make any sense to me, especially not on permanent pasture. Pasture plants can metabolize the more available nitrogen compounds directly, and many of them can probably do so through foliar feeding, grabbing nutrients through their leaves before the manure actually works its way down into contact with the soil. I don't see why it's better for manure to be predigested through composting, rather than hitting the ground straight from the chicken's butt..."

Indeed, plants can take up available inorganic nutrients in solution, otherwise we would not have a chemical fertiliser industry, let alone a hydroponic industry. But do the little experiment. Buy a hydroponic lettuce and a genuinely organically grown lettuce [i.e. grown in soil and not pushed with chemical fertilizer or raw manures] and put them in the fridge in separate bags, side by side for a month. You may then be able to eat the organic lettuce, but the hydroponic lettuce is more likely to have turned into the missed step - compost.

Hydroponics produces such splendid growth so swiftly especially because the delivery of the salts to plant cells leaves them with a need for water which they take up as best they can - with more salts, then more growth. But I very much doubt the relative food value of this force fed plant. I do know people who get headaches from the heavy nitrogen loads they have (amine headaches, like people get when they use nitroglycerine tablets for angina).

It is a question of whether you take a bag chemical perspective of plant nutrition, or whether you look at the more normal relationship between plant and soil, including the role of clay microcrystals and coacervates, humic acids, mycorrhizal fungi, bacteria and other diverse soil micro and macro organisms. If we take the fact that a spoonful of healthy soil contains as many individual organisms as the human population of the planet (the size of the spoon is shifting as people increase in number and soils degrade), and note that this level of activity in the soil tends to decline as treatment with chemical fertilisers (I would include raw manures) rises, then we see an issue. You take your choice about what you do about it. My view is that not only are plants healthier but soil structures are sounder and less vulnerable to erosion, etc, if we work on raising soil health rather than just dumping feed on plants.

As regards this point: "I don't see why it's better for manure to be predigested through composting, rather than hitting the ground straight from the chicken's butt..."

I think the issue is how many chickens on how much ground. If you can convince yourself that the chooks are not crowded and they move elsewhere soon enough - then the soil is likely to be sound enough to make good use of the manure, and swiftly. But shovel and barrow loads are another matter.

The basic issue of chemical v. organic nutrition goes back to the impact of Liebig on agricultural chemistry in the 19th century. Sir Albert Howard, whose experiments in India with composting had a big impact on the organic movement, wrote of Liebig:

"there was a kind of superb arrogance in the idea that we only had to put the ashes of a few plants in a t4est tube, analyse them, and scatter back into the the soil equivalent quantities of dead minerals. It is true that the plants are the supreme, the only agents capable of converting the inorganic materials of nature into the organic; that is their great function, their justification, if we like to use the word. But it was expecting altogether too much of the vegetable kingdom that it should worko nly in this crude, brutal way" [quoted at p 141, Walters and Fenzau, An Acres USA Primer, Kansas City 1979, 1992]

It is interesting that the pesticide industry relies on plants' absorption of complex organic molecules for systemic poisons, while the fertiliser industry downplays and its products diminish the role of complex organic molecule transfer from soil to plants.

Dennis

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From: "Bill and Judy Decker" --- anagenao at valu-line.net --- Dec. 15, 1999

9) SUNFLOWER SEEDS INFO REQUESTED

Has anyone on the list ever investigated the use of sunflower seeds, whole, as a protein component for pastured broilers? We were wondering if the gizzard would open the hull. Actually, we were also wondering if the broilers would even know to eat them!

Thanks in advance, Judy Decker

William and Judy Decker Renaissance Farms Ltd Emporia, KS

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From: "Robert Plamondon" --- robert at plamondon.com --- Dec. 17, 1999

8) OCEAN POLLUTANTS INFO REQUESTED

> Has anyone read anything QUANTIFIED on the levels of > pollutants in the ocean, and where the samples have been taken? > Email me if you have info, please, tractionpads at earthlink.net

>Kim Salisbury

I haven't been paying attention to these issues, but that's the sort of thing marine biologists do. There should be at least 30 years of research on the topic kicking around. If you're near a univeristy with an oceanography department, going to the library and asking for help from one of the librarians should bury you in information. If kelp is a major product in a given area, the extension service will probably have someone who's up to speed on it, too.



-- Robert

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From: Roger Post --- RogerPost at delphi.com --- Dec. 17, 1999

7) GETTING BIRDS ACQUAINTED

I think the idea of putting them together in a new space is a good one. The problem with putting one new chickens in with a established group is that they all attack at once. If you can put several new birds in together in a large area or outdoors is better. I understand that putting the new birds in just at dusk when the birds are going to roost is a good idea. That way they have all night to get used to the idea but can not see well enough to fight. They will wake up in the morning having spend the night together. However, I would suggest you be around when they wake up just in case. Pecking order is not just something that was made up. Every chicken who lives with other chickens has his or her place in the pecking order. They had to fight or bluster to get that place. When you put a new bird in all of the other birds want to make sure this new bird comes below them in the picking order. If they have enough room so the new bird can get away from the crowd then they will work this all out. If not they may kill the newcomer. It usually does not take long. There will always be one bird that no other bird can peck and one bird that every other bird can peck. That is the way they are, and you are not going to change that. Once the order is established the one on the bottom is not usually in any real danger physically. mentally she may be a wreck.

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From: "Robert Plamondon" --- robert at plamondon.com

6) FEED DETAILS --- MAKING YOUR OWN

>The "crimped" corn is run through a crusher compared to the ground corn that >is finely ground. Joel thinks the crimped is more palatable (not eating >"dust" exclusively) Larger birds do fine on whole corn, which also keeps better. The last time we bought crimped corn it was moldy. I've never seen that with whole corn.

When you use ground grain in a mash ration, it should be a coarse grind, to get rid of dustiness, increase palatability, and reduce the time spent in the grinder.

One thing people ought to consider is having the feed mill turn your feed into pellets instead of mash. This eliminates dustiness. It takes the birds about five times longer to eat mash than pellets, which means that they need more feeder space with mash. Also, the birds tend to "beak out" mash onto the ground, where it's lost. Pellets that fall the the ground are generally eaten anyway. People who raise birds in confinement often prefer mash because it keeps the birds busy. We have pasture to keep the birds busy.

Tiny chicks can't handle pellets. Crumbles (which the feed mill makes by taking the pellets and running them through rollers) may be a good compromise if you want to use exactly the same feed from day-old till slaughter. We find it simpler to use a different feed for baby chicks than birds on pasture.

By the way, one study tested the effect of substituting grain for the layer ration in hens (to see what happens when you run out of feed and the mill can't give you a new batch right away), and if you didn't do this any longer than six days, it had no effect. The hens must have called on body reserves of the things missing from the grain, and kept laying away. They also tested the old belief that hens are reluctant to switch to a new ration if it's from a different manufacturer, is a different texture, or a different color. In the tests, this wasn't true, and egg production was unaffected by whipsawing the hens from one balanced ration to another. I didn't see any comparable work done on broilers, but my guess is that filling the feeders up with grain (if you've run out of everything else) is far better than leaving the broilers hungry.

Robert Plamondon * High-Tech Technical Writing 36475 Norton Creek Road * Blodgett OR 97326 541-453-5841 * Fax: 541-453-4139 mailto:robert at plamondon.com * http://www.pioneer.net/~robertp

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From: "Randy Simpson" --- bullfrog at wideopen.net --- December 16, 1999

5) VIGILANCE IN KNOWING YOUR SOURCES PAYS OFF

I just visited another "health food" store with a sandwich counter. They offered "Range Fed Chickens" so I asked the owner where she got them. She couldn't tell me exactly, "some co-op in Virginia, I think." I warned her that buying sight unseen, depending upon the labeling, was very risky. It is always best to talk to the provider, visit if you can, and confirm that what you're buying is truly healthy food. She didn't understand that "organic" chickens can be raised in a confinement house and mechanically slaughtered and they can be "range fed" if the door is open at the end of the house to a mud lot. Or that 5 acres of grass can be available to them but they congregate in the fecal mud hole in one corner, eating dead chickens. I'm going to put together a brochure titled "Range Fed Poultry, Is it all it's cracked up to be?" and carry it with me to educate these folks. I do wish we lived in a more perfect world where the proprietors of these "health food" stores would personally check out their sources before they feed their unsuspecting customers junk.

Randy Simpson
Things Eternal Farm
Fairfield, PA

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From: "Robert Plamondon" robert at plamondon.com Dec. 14, 1999

4) TOWARD A DEFINITION OF PASTURE POULTRY

*What practices are included in nearly all Pasture Poultry endeavors?

Poultry that form one element of a crop-rotation system or who share permanent pasture with other livestock. Other systems of poultrykeeping are monoculture systems, where poultry occupy the land exclusively over a period of years. (Having a "monoculture mindset" is the short road to failure in small-farm poultrykeeping.)

*What additional practices may be included in some farms but not in others practicing Pasture Poultry?

God knows. Anything. It's a big world out there, with a lot of husbandry challenges. It's taking a long time to work out all the wrinkles involved in farming in one place; who knows what works and what doesn't in a wildly different environment?

I think that most of what's been published in magazines about the benefits of alternative poultry has been put together by people who are very ignorant of poultrykeeping, and their checklists of "bad" practices are questionable at best.

*Please state your idea of the numerical range of things in Pasture Poultry (such as number of chickens per square feet of ground, per square feet of roosting space, per nest box, the amount of time that chickens are kept on a given range, the seasonal changes and roughly when they occur, or anything quantifiable that pertains).

These numbers are fairly meaningless when you're looking for a definition. For example, you have only one nest box per ten hens, you're going to get a lot of floor eggs, but it's still pastured poultry. Inadequate roost space just means that the hens will sleep in trees or on the roof of the house.

On pasture, stocking density means nothing at all unless you consider plant recovery time and manure nutrient density in the soil. I could probably put ten times as many birds on a pasture in May, during the spring lush, as I could during a soggy November, where grass growth is nonexistent and the wet ground renders the turf easily damaged.

Generally speaking, chickens on pasture should be moved before they damage the pasture beyond the point where it will recover quickly. On cropland, the chickens may be on stubble fields or other areas where everything's going to be plowed under anyway, and the main consideration will be to move them frequently enough that all their manure will be put to good use and to get them away from the mud and dust they create by scratching the ground.

In short, if this year's crops do well on the spot where we placed last year's chickens, we're doing something right. If the plants don't grow, or we have to plow, lime, and seed several times a year to keep grass in our yards, we're overstocked.

Seasonal considerations vary wildly with location. Here on the Pacific Coast with moderate temperatures, wet winters, and dry summers, one can use the same practices with hens year-round, so long as the hens roost off the ground. Broilers can probably be raised year-round on a well-drained pasture with pens that don't blow over easily and allow the broilers to roost somewhere dry, but the standard pens are not suited to winter broilers. God knows what the right methods are in the Dakotas.

*Please describe how to perform the most important practices in Pasture Poultry.

You mean, "insert book here"?

*What is your professional connection with Pasture Poultry?

We sell pastured broilers, free-range eggs, pastured pork, lamb, turkey, and goat.

*Would you like your contact information to be forwarded to prospective customers? To be shared with others on the Internet? To be given to news sources?

Sure.

Robert Plamondon * High-Tech Technical Writing
mailto:robert at plamondon.com * http://www.pioneer.net/~robertp

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From: "Robert Plamondon" --- robert at plamondon.com --- Dec. 9, 1999

3) RESIDUES TESTING NEEDED

The whole question of residues is generally presented as an article of faith when it should be based on facts. I've never seen a tally of the chemical residues in a grocery basket of conventional vs. organic food, an absence which makes me a little suspicious. Testing the products is probably a better indicator of dangerous residue levels than testing the soil -- since relatively few people eat dirt.

I'll see if I can find some actual test results comparing feed levels to meat/egg levels.

Jack wrote: > Pesticides (i.e. insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, etc.) and > chemical fertilizer residue on corn, oats and soybeans are not as big > issue with organic farmers (it is a huge issue, however, with organic > fruits and vegetables). Of greater importance (cereal grain-wise), I > believe, is the the lower negative impact on the ecosystem by the > avoidance of their use.
> > Therefore, while you and I do not practice "conventional" agriculture, > and while our chickens are not subjected to pesticide/fertilizer > residues, the very use of "conventional" cereal grains in our rations > (I, too, purchase local grains...but not organic) indirectly supports > the "conventional" agricultural model...at least to some extent.
My personal opinion is that sustainable farming is starting to win big, even in direct competition with chemical farming. Chemical fertilizer costs money, while animals poop for free. And chemical-based farming burns up topsoil, which can't be replaced except by switching to sustainable farming methods. You can't farm without topsoil, no matter how many chemicals you use.
Now, if I were in the Corn Belt, I'd probably hasten the inevitable by buying my grain and soybeans from a local sustainable farmer and have my feed custom-milled. But I'm a loooong way from the Corn Belt, and it's a LOT simpler to find the best feed mill in the area and give them all my business, buying off-the-shelf unmedicated rations.

Robert Plamondon * High-Tech Technical Writing 36475 Norton Creek Road * Blodgett OR 97326 541-453-5841 * Fax: 541-453-4139 mailto:robert at plamondon.com * http://www.pioneer.net/~robertp

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2) ORGANIC FEED MILL IN PENNSYLVANIA

Dec. 8, 1999 I am one of the owners and the manager of an organic feed mill in PA. Check out our website at http://www.organicunlimited.com . We make all types of organic feeds and use Fertrell's minerals in many of our rations especially ones that target pastured layers and broilers. We would be glad to discuss the possibilities of providing feed to any group, co-op, or individual.

Ken Rice --- krest at nbn.net

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1) GUINEA HENS

From BLUERE11E at aol.com Dec. 2, 1999

What is the best type of chicken to suppliment with feed, but basically leave on its on? I have many trees on ~ 1 acre of woods for food, shelter, and hiding from predators. A small structure could be provided, if necessary.

Ken >>

I can't think of any chicken that would have survival skills like your asking for. However, have you considered Guinea hens? here's a bird, eats TONS of bugs, doesn't tear up your garden scratching. Announces strange visitors so well, the neighbors down the road will always know when you have company, or a REALLY BIG SNAKE come to visit. The eggs are quite edible.. as well as the bird itself (they don't call it "the poor man's pheasant" because it's such a gorgeous bird.). The egg whites are actually better than any egg for merangue.. stands up stiffer. They have pretty feathers you can sell to avid fishermen that prefer to make their own flies, or sell to the local hobby store. They come in about 20 or more different colours, and new ones are always on the horizon. The chicks are cuter than most baby animals, and have 10x the personality..They get uglier though, as they mature. This is sortof like the reverse of the ugly duckling, they have a built in "grown-up" indicator.. a bump like horn on their head when the feathers on their head fall out. Sort of like a vulture just so happened to visit some of your chicken hens late one lonely evening, and guineas were the offspring of that tryst. They roost up in trees when the sun starts to go down.. Ever vigilant, they "go off" when they see an unfamiliar shadow or animal. Unlike a chicken or "sitting duck".. they watch their heinies when they sleep.. They help to rid your yard of pests, eat very little commercial food, and turn out a big clutch of babies twice a year for you to sell off and make more money off of them than the feed you put into them Did I tell you are very versitile birds??(G) No, I don't like guineas, never had one, nope, not me, don't know a thing about them...NOT!!! LOL Hope I gave you some food for thought. laurelle

Get your CAR or TRUCK ... UNSTUCK !! with

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